Episode 24: Chrissy Heyne, Finding Strength in Change
In this episode of the Queer Divorce Club, Chrissy shares her personal journey through divorce, from the initial shock and emotional turmoil to co-parenting and rebuilding her life. She discusses the process of choosing mediation, the importance of community support, and the strategies that helped her cope. Chrissy reflects on the ongoing nature of personal growth and the value of viewing life changes as opportunities rather than setbacks. She also offers advice for those just starting their own divorce journey, emphasizing resilience, self-compassion, and the power of community.
Music in this episode is from Bungalow Heaven. You can find more music from Bungalow Heaven and singer/songwriter Gretchen DeVault at gretchendevault.com.
Chrissy Heyne
Chrissy came out in her early 20s and got legally married in Iowa in 2012 (before it was federally recognized). She had two kids with her now ex-wife before getting divorced in 2019.
Show Transcript
Hi, Chrissy. Welcome to the Queer Divorce Club. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. I'm really looking forward to today because we've had a few of these, but you're really getting to talk about your story and I'm excited for you to share the process that you went through in your divorce and how you're feeling today.
And I think our listeners will get some really good stuff out of it. Yeah, I hope so. I was just saying to you before we hit the record that I wish something like this had existed or it did and I had found it sooner because I think divorces can be so destabilizing and creating this little community is, is a real gift.
So I'm glad to be here. Well, thank you for being a part of it today. To get us started, can you give us a little glimpse of, like, just where you are today in your life? Yeah so I'm, I'm about five years out from my divorce, which sometimes it feels like it was 20 years ago, and sometimes it feels like it was four minutes ago.
It really kind of depends on the day. I, since that time, have also gone through a lot of other [00:01:00] transitions. I got a new job. In the pandemic, I lost my job. I worked for myself. So just kind of getting my career a little bit stabilized as well. And in the mid midst of co parenting, teens and preteens, which feels very much a big part of my life right now.
Yeah, those teenagers take over. Yeah, they really do. Yeah, they really do. Yeah, so you've gone through tons of transitions. So I'm excited. Let's talk about them. Can you just explain the basics of like how your divorce process got started and what that felt like for you? I in prep for this kind of went back and just read some journals from that time of my life, which was, which was helpful.
So I, Got divorced. I mean, I think the decision and the whole process of it came to a head pretty close to Christmas 2018, which I don't recommend doing that near a holiday. It's not amazing. And [00:02:00] I would say that in some ways it happened really fast. In other ways, probably there were signs. I'm sure anyone who's been divorced, it's like not a super simple story to make sense
of, but it was pretty, you know, Sudden and fast and a little bit of a shock to myself, to the kids, to the whole kind of family system.
And so the process of getting divorced of, of kind of like that initial conversation to like legally divorce was about a year. So I got legally divorced from my ex wife, like the following December of 20, 19 then a pandemic in 2020, so it was just a real lot of things happening at once, but that kind of timeline is, is kind of where my divorce happened.
And you so you said you're like started that legal process a year after you. Separated. Is that correct? Well, we started the legal process probably months. I feel like there was a little bit cloudy, but when you have [00:03:00] kids, you need to like, wait a certain amount of time where you can like, sign the paper.
We started, we ended up doing mediation which I know we can talk about that. And so we started that process probably six months, maybe even sooner from that initial conversation. And then we had to like, wait to go to the, like, official signing of the papers until a year later. Yeah. Each state has a different process, but I know in Michigan, we have a six month waiting period if you have kids and it's shorter if you don't.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's all of those legalese. Yeah. I was so overwhelmed at that point. I, that was like the least of the things on my mind was like the legal component of it, but yeah. Yeah. How did you choose the mediation process that you went through? Yeah. I mean, I think from my experience, I mean, so there's like the whole emotional family stuff I know we'll get into.
And then the legal element and the financial element and the custody element of it all creates, or created [00:04:00] at least for me, a ton of stress. And there's so much uncertainty in that of, you know, how do you split it all up? And is your ex going to be fair? And you're kind of thinking of your ex as your partner, but they're not.
And so, and then you have all these people around you. Kind of trying to protect you feeding, feeding you fear, you know, like, what if, what if this, and what if that, and what if this, and again, I was so emotionally upended that I truly could not think straight. But I did not want to be, I did not want to spend a lot of money.
And I felt like all I had heard from other people I knew was like, the lawyers just, you know, that adds another fee to you and you might as well spend that money. Keeping it within you. And, and so actually like probably one of the most helpful things I did was one of the friends who was kind of like, you gotta like Chrissy, you're not, you're not like, it's cute that you think your ex might be fair, but like, what if she isn't, and it would be helpful to [00:05:00] know, so I went to she knew a lawyer who went out to like, go to drink with me, this man, I've never seen him before.
I've never seen him since. I don't even know his name and I can barely, I can barely remember what he looks like, but God love him because I'll never forget this. We were sitting down and I was like, you know, how does divorce work? And he's like, look, it's pretty much. a math equation. You know, you take this, you times that, you divide this, that determines custody, you do this, you do that, and it doesn't matter if there was an affair, it doesn't matter if there was abuse, I mean it's pretty cut and dry.
And so, and I said, well, then why would anybody spend money on a lawyer? And he said, more people should ask themselves that question. He was a divorce attorney until I was like, Roger that, you know, and he was like, look, if you're trying to get is it alimony or like, you know, spousal, whatever that, you know, I'm like, I don't think we have a case for that.
We're both professional. We both have [00:06:00] careers. And so I was, I don't know, that just like hit me over the head of like, look, I'm not looking to take anything from you. That's not, you know, so my ex and I were having enough conversations that I think we both had enough still trust of one another there, even in a real time of uncertainty that this is a really, this is a good human being, air quotes.
And. They're not gonna try and take something from me. That's not theirs. And so we both decided we were going to try mediation, knowing that if at any point either of us felt like a growing fear that it wasn't going to play out that way, then we would just get lawyers. And that process could not have been, we, we went to the mediation essentially with everything decided.
I don't actually even know we paid the mediator to do, you know, we maybe had a couple things. We had the kids schedule. [00:07:00] She, she did a little math that we had to figure out and we were in and out like in an hour. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. That sounds ideal. I know. I, and I, I recognize that not everybody has the privilege of working with an ex that they can say, hey, Whatever happens about us not having a romantic relationship.
This is still a human being that I've been with for 10 years, for 15 that was built on a friendship. Can we kind of find the core of that? And it was awkward. I mean, please not do not picture my ex and I like, Hey, just here to talk about who gets the minivan. You know, it was awkward. It was not fun. It was emotionally draining.
But I was I was also so financially scared that wasting money didn't feel like a really great idea. Yeah. So I was really grateful for that component of it. Yeah. So you took care of yourself and the parts that you felt were like [00:08:00] really important in that moment for you. I tried, you know, I really tried and I really tried to, you know, like I said, I had friends and family, I think that were lovingly Trying to protect me and I couldn't get up from down at that point of like, you know, I was like, just in my own like, washing machine of like, I trust her.
What did she just take on my whole retirement? I would have to have, you know, all the what ifs, you know, it's like, not only is your own grade feeding them to you. In my experience, and I think this is true of a lot of people, people are trying to be helpful and they're trying to, it's like you're not in a place to think clearly, which I was not.
And so I think just trying to navigate all that was a big part of the mediation versus divorce lawyer. I had no questions about parental rights or anything like that. Again, another gift and privilege. So it really worked for us. And if you can get to that place with your ex, I like can't recommend it, especially if there's kids involved, you know, [00:09:00] like I recommend it.
I, I, I just, yeah, I'm so grateful for that lawyer. And that like a little one, the only lawyer I ever talked to and it was super helpful. Yeah. I feel like when I went through the process too, we ended up using attorneys after we tried to do it alone. And then I looked for a mediator, but couldn't really find accessible services.
And then the more and more we start having these conversations, I'm like, they're out there everywhere. Like everybody should be using these services. I think our mediation cost us, and I'm not. I'm not kidding, 150. What? I could be totally wrong, so Yeah, but it's less than 8, 000. Oh, yes. It was, it was, it was I should give you the Grand Rapids place in case people come to you for that because it was a really great experience.
The woman was amazing. Again, I don't remember her name. Can't remember what she looked like. It was an emotional time. Yes, I remember the felt experience of that day. And it was, it was really. Lovely. [00:10:00] If you can look back during that time and you just talk, you've mentioned the emotional support quite a bit, and it sounds like you weren't sure exactly in those exact moments who to connect to or whatever.
If you could look back at Chrissy in that moment, what would you tell her? Like, who should you connect with? What should you say to these people? You know, what would you tell her? Yeah, a lot of it, I think I ended up finding, you know, I think
when I, when I go back to that state, I was. It's really hard to untangle for me what I was so sad and whatever insert all the feelings and emotions of the not positive side of the feelings wheel were all flooding me and it's really hard to untangle. Are you sad about the end of this relationship? Are you sad about the end of the routine?
You know, you're 40 years old. You didn't picture. This mega shift happening where your friends and your routine and your family dinners are all gone in a day. [00:11:00] You know, you don't get to see your kids. all the time. Are you sad about that? And so the overwhelm for me of just being totally flooded. I mean, I could not eat.
I lost 30 pounds. I could not sleep. I could not think I could not work. If I hadn't been working where I had worked for 15 years, I would have for sure been fired. They should have fired me. And so I think that, and it felt like it was never going to not feel that way. It felt like. I guess the best of my life is behind me.
This is you now. And, and, you know, and I could kind of touch that that might not be true, but then at FUMA, I would get pulled right back into bed, you know, just like calling my mom, like I'm hungry, sad and tired, but I can't eat and I can't work. And, and so I think some of the things that I found by accident, you know, that I would maybe tell myself or other people.
Therapy obviously was really helpful. I was already in therapy at the [00:12:00] time, but I doubled up and was going a lot. I was asking for help, like a animal, like just, I had friends here. I, I, at a year later, I sent this email out to everybody who helped me. And I had a little side email for like husbands of the, Of the support club who just like lent their wives to me, you know, at all hours of the day families, whose family dinners I was just joining, I really missed, I could almost like, I just missed so much like family.
And so I would just like go to friends houses for like family dinners and just like really borrow their kids. Like, I just like, I didn't have a kitchen table in my house because that was one of the things that I just. Give to her. And so I didn't have a kitchen table in my house for like a long time. I don't know.
I was both not functioning and I think getting a kitchen table probably resented. So I think like [00:13:00] reaching out for help was just a thing I really had to get good at. And there were so many people, like people that I expected to love me. But then all these other people, like who I was like, you're just like a person at the gym who yes, I have a relationship with but, you know, I think I really leaned on actually building a whole new community and strengthening one that existed which has been a really great life skill to have as you navigate.
Spoiler alert, unfortunately, you continue to navigate other changes after you get divorced. No, I'm really pissed about that. That's like my new reflection. But I think I built some muscle there. I took a mindfulness class. I took an eight week mindfulness class and That was incredibly useful in terms of just skills, self compassion and mindfulness.
There was a, a phrase on that class that really unhooked me of pain [00:14:00] times resistance equals suffering. Mm hmm. And I just, when I saw that Tara on the screen, I was like I'm, I'm, I'm resisting, like, I am resisting this, I just felt like if, if this wasn't happening or if I knew exactly why this happening or if only this would happen, then I would be happy.
Yeah. You know, and I like just softened my grip on all the angst I was in. Adding to the experience, just, I didn't let go of it, but I softened it and that made the pain a little bit more manageable. And that actually was a huge turning point in my own suffering of the experience. So, yeah. I was just thinking about, yeah, just thinking about that for, I just need to sit in that for a second.
Yeah. I really. I also have connected a lot to this idea of releasing myself from the resistance and part of that, like as you said, asking for help. I think one of the things [00:15:00] I resisted a ton was like letting myself be needing help and letting myself ask for it. And I think that that comes up quite a bit.
So I'm hoping that you can say you've already, I could see it in you that the felt experience was once you did ask for help, you got received help. And so it didn't seem. Like that was stressful, right? That felt good. Yeah. And I was, you know, I think a better way to say what actually happened is that I was so not functioning that I got help.
I just received, people descended on me. And the gift of that is that now when I need help, When I believe in trust, it will be there. And I asked for it. So like, it would be giving past Chrissy a little bit too much credit that she was like, Hey, I need help more. Like people were looking at me like, girl, you're not functioning and you need [00:16:00] help.
And they really showed up for me in a way that like, That was a, that was like, I, I was actively hovering above the experience a little bit and was like, There are so many gifts of grief and there are so many beautiful pieces of what I can't like feel it but I see it and I'm making a mental note of it and when I can get myself unburied, holy shit, I'm gonna tell everybody that like in the darkest corners of the experiences that life gives you, there's also the most love, the most connection, the most beautiful pieces of life, the most pieces of growth and transformation.
I couldn't like Like, but I was like, I see it, I see it, I see it. Wow. You know, and when I did pop my, he myself back up and started to shift, I was like, almost honestly, I was almost like . And I'm so sad 'cause I can't, I can't get in touch with it right now. 'cause [00:17:00] now I have new, painful experiences. But I was like.
Endorphin rush. It was like on the other side of it was like just energy and transformation and joy and presence and dopamine and, and all of these things. And, and I felt that it, it, I didn't, I touched it. I observed it when I was in the kind of valley of it, but on the other side I was like, I mean, I lost my job and just decided I was gonna work for myself.
In 2020 April. Yeah. That's delusional. That's like borderline delusional and it worked. That's how unstoppable I felt, you know, like I would never do that now, but I think because I was on that come up on the other side, it was, it was really special. You feel like there's this moment when, so I'm thinking about, we talk about this messy middle a lot and it sounds like that was that space for you before you decided like, Okay, the middle is done and I'm ready to [00:18:00] move forward and I can look back in my experience and I can totally feel if I think back, I can feel in my body like the moments when it was shifted, right?
And I can see the shift. And for me, it was kind of gradual. And over time, it was like, Oh, that shit felt really good. And then I felt like crap. And then I felt, is that what I felt like for you? What was the experience? Yes. And, you know, I think
There'd be moments, right, where so like, phase one, I felt like, you know, you're just like, here I am, I'm divorced, I'm in Grand Rapids, I'm gay, I have two kids, I'm gay divorced, there was like the shame spiral of like, I just remember thinking like, like so many people get divorced, like this should feel, this is not a big deal, and then feeling like, The only person who ever got divorced and like all I could see was like it, you know I've never had the experience of scrolling through social media and feeling like that makes me feel bad about my life I don't usually do like a compare contrast But I was like, I don't [00:19:00] want to see your fucking family on a vacation Like I really I don't want to see your anniversary.
I don't even want to see you I don't want to see you. So I just like deleted social media. Cause I could really sense that. So there was like that phase and then, and, and kind of like not knowing what to do with my time. Like I felt like on my stretches without the kids, like, what do I do? Like, what, who am I like, I was doing like puzzles at my.
Not kitchen table fold out. I've never done a puzzle in my life. I've never done one since you know I was like puzzles are hard that I would just like just weird shit, you know and then there'd be like a phase where i'm like, oh like I could go to The beach on a saturday With my friend, I could go to brunch, like I can do whatever I want.
So then I had a little phase of like, oh, I have hobbies. I have, I can, I can do things that I haven't actually done in 20 or 15 years because I've been only parenting or only with this other [00:20:00] person. And then there'd be like another valley of like, Christmas is coming up, like, or their birthdays, or, you know, or like, what will they do when they projecting way out?
Like, what will they, what will I do when they come home from college? Will they, like, only come to 1 over out? How will we, you know, like, and then I had a phase of like. I'm going to go to Mexico by myself and like, which is like, totally out of character, you know, so it was definitely like. Trying to figure out and still who am I now that I don't have some of these existing structures and sometimes that's really fun and sometimes that came with a lot of sadness and sometimes it came with confusion and that was my experience.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of in that. The waves, the circles. I love it. Yeah. Every time we talk to somebody on the podcast or I talked to somebody about divorce, they're like the emotions and they're moving their hands [00:21:00] around. Sometimes they move them in waves. Sometimes it's like, it's legit. Not a straight line.
We just have to remember that. And it's not a mountain we're climbing either. Nope. Whatever experience you're having, there's definitely. Ups and downs and rounds. Yeah. Yeah. Someone told me like when I was really in the, you know, they were just like, everything's better in two weeks. Everything's better in two weeks.
And then they were like, and then we revised it. Like, everything's different in two weeks. Everything's different. And honestly, that has been true for a majority of the last several years of like and I think that's what's Oh yeah, now we're in this phase of it. Now we're in this phase of it. Now we're in this phase of it.
And I would imagine there'll be an element of that for the rest of my life. You know, like. I'm not from a divorced family and so I can get really caught up in things like, yeah, like, what will they do when they come from college or will I not see them at home? Will I be a grandma whose kids don't come all this, you know, [00:22:00] weird shit just pops into your brain.
And so it's like, yeah, everything's different. One thing to know for sure is that this phase is not staying long. And unfortunately, that's true about some of the good phases, but it's also always true about some of the tough phases and that's been a helpful muscle, not just to navigate this part of life, but to just navigate life in general.
It's really easy to just get lulled into status quo, but status quo never stays forever, for one reason or another. And so kind of building up some of this resilience around. Resistance around awareness around understanding what really upsets you, what really helps you when you're the most upset what that that has been a gift of something this seismic happening in my life, and it continues to be something that I have to reflect on.
As I figure out how to be a human, navigating the human experience. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking as you were saying that, that we do have, all of us have this, right? Like as we get older, you know, nobody's life is [00:23:00] the same. And I think there's a lot of battles we can make and talk about psychologically that like midlife crises and things as we get older and we like grieve these phases.
And I think that. The gift, like you were saying, is that divorce gives you that chance to do it at a younger age and you have to do it, like you don't have a choice. So there's a ton of grief and a lot more things you're experiencing, but then as you go, you realize that the goal is not to have a life.
That is just me as a single person or me in this new life, but that to have a life, right, that you're choosing yourself, that you're giving yourself this chance. And yeah, it sounds like you did that for yourself or you're learning how to do it. Yeah. I'm, I'm, you know, my therapist, I was like, nope, we don't try we practice, you know, and, and I'm practicing.
I'm trying. I'm sorry. I'm practicing some of the skills that were definitely required of me in that phase that are required of me in smaller ways [00:24:00] in the day to day experience, right? It's like, that pain times resistance, you know, equation really helped me in that big thing. But it also helps me like at an airport, right?
When I'm like, I'm pissed that I have a layover and it's delayed and now I can't get where I'm going. And it's like, okay, like, Oh, it looks like you're kind of, you know, like I built some big muscles around some of these things then. And I, I think, you know, it's helped me cultivate Then in smaller ways now I really felt strongly early in the divorce.
I'm talking like within the first three weeks of realizing that this was happening to me, that it was like my brain in an instant, and I don't even know why it did this, but it projected out like a bitter, resentful, 65 year old version of myself at my kid's wedding. Just. Bitter and then someone's like, when did you guys get divorced and I had to be like 40 years [00:25:00] ago And look I'm still talking about it, you know, like and I was like, I will not Be that and again, I don't know if my parents are divorced.
I don't know why my brain like fed me that message So and you know what else isn't going to happen My kids are not going to be navigating the stress of a divorce on top of two adults Who they feel hate each other. It was like I read I didn't get through a parenting book on co parenting because I was trying, but I was not functioning, but I did read like page 1, 2, and 3, and one of the sentences that stuck with me then was like the, you know, it was, the idea was like, The two people that your kids love the most are their two parents.
And when they hear somebody talking negatively about their parent, they actually absorb them about themselves because you're too young to delineate. Who am I separate from my parents? You don't do that until you're twenties. And so [00:26:00] anything they hear about that parent, they're hearing about themselves.
And so some of those things I think have helped me honestly be a better person. It's very easy to slip into anger and frustration and why me and I've tried to untangle that and at times I've been probably crossed my own boundaries and other times maybe I did get resentful, but I've tried to kind of have a North Star there.
And I think, again, that North Star helps me in other areas of my life in terms of regulating. Yeah, I really like that idea of this North Star, like as you were talking to about being 65 and still mad at your dad about the divorce and that feeling. I mean, I in my world have very much seen this happen.
Like my parents were divorced when I was, I think seven or eight and they did not talk again until my wedding day. Like they, it was just tumultuous and in between and they would fight and just, I mean, [00:27:00] that was 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Close to that they were just stuck in this and it seems like so bitter and angry and oh, yeah Energy, right?
Yeah, and you don't want you're getting divorced Why no matter if you chose it or not? Why would you want that to rule your life forever, right? Like you gotta really gotta work through it, right? And I to be totally honest and I can remember thinking this because people you know People try to praise you and tell you what you're doing.
You go. Oh, you're doing such a great job blah blah blah and like Without the kids as the impetus, I think I probably could have become like a trash person. Like I think I could have been like, like, I think I would have, I don't know what I would have done. It's impossible to know for sure, but I think I can say with a great degree of certainty that The kids were a big impetus of, and now, you know, we're five years out, and so at the time we were parenting a second grader and a sixth grader, and now we're parenting a sophomore and a sixth grader, and they're [00:28:00] navigating really difficult teen things, and I cannot imagine not being on the same page with her, not communicating with her regularly.
Yeah. Our kids would be so much worse off and they would be able to slip through all these cracks. If they knew we were not talking, I mean, they, they, they know, like they, and they love, they're so proud of the fact, you know, they handle it. My daughter's like, I have, I have friends who are not, whose parents are divorced and they won't even look at each other when they exchange and they won't, you know, and my daughter's like really takes that in.
And my son, he's 16 and he's kind of like, The last thing I need is the two of you at the same table because he knows it's us. It's us for you and also us against you. So like, you know, like we are in lockstep. So please don't think you can tell that mom one thing and then come home and not know that we talked about it.
And I, and the groundwork that I laid even naively, you know, like I said, I think I probably I was figuring out how to have [00:29:00] boundaries with somebody that I had been married to for almost a decade, you know, so you're kind of figuring that out. And when you date new people, they kind of point out like, Hey, you know, and that was super helpful, but.
I think it's been nothing but good as we've tried to figure out and she's been amazing max and I think we're entering a new phase of figure out who we are as two people, knowing that these two kids are leaking us for the rest of our life. Yeah. So yeah, it's made it it's made the day to day just a lot less.
Honestly, I don't feel stressed if I have to make a phone call to her. It's like, it's nothing, you know? Yeah. That's a great spot to be able to get to, but it does take work, right? It takes work from both of you. It takes work for you. Like you were saying, setting good boundaries, it does take a lot of work.
I'll guess one plug. Sorry. I will say to us is, you know, we got our kids therapist when we were going through it and You know, they each have a different reaction to that, but that therapist will sometimes have meetings with me and my ex to guide us, [00:30:00] you know, so sometimes we'll go there and, and and we'll be like, Hey, you know, we're approaching this teen thing and this is really hard and here's our values.
And that's been immensely helpful in And we were, it's not even because we were not on the same page, although I could see that way, that would be really useful. But that's been an amazing resource for us to just provide a third party to help us. Figure out, you know, how to approach things with the kids.
Yeah. We have that too. Therapists for all three of our kiddos feel like that space is it's also just thinking about that, that each kid is so different as you go to, and you have to like navigate with each one individually and it's not one solution. And so you're right. That is a very good support.
Yeah. As you think about the last five years and in this new space, you're in what. Are you really proud of?
I'm, I'm like, I am very proud of the whole last part of what we did. I'm, I'm [00:31:00] so proud of our co parenting. It's only gotten better every year over the last five years. I think it will only continue to get better. And I'm proud of that because I see the impact it has on our kids. I'm really proud of.
And again, I say I credit having children be in this because I could see a trash version of myself, but I didn't do anything in the process of the divorce. That I'm not proud of, or that I'm like, that was really aggressively mean, or that did not need to be said, or, I'm like, really, and honestly, I don't even know if I have a, I just was journaling the other morning, and I'm like, has the dust, like, fully settled on my divorce, you know, like, in some ways, I've, like, diluted myself into thinking, and in other ways, I'm still, like, Processing it like I think that [00:32:00] so I'm proud of the fact that everything I did and the way that I conducted myself through that experience is something that I can point to of like Chrissy you're capable of that and of that and of that and like, I don't know that I knew I was and then I think the third thing would be, I have really tried to use my divorce As a real mirror to, Hey girl, what are some things you want to work on?
You know, like this divorce can be about a lot of things. It can be about all the ways that, you know, you're a victim. It can be about all the ways that you're a failure. It can be whatever you want this to be. It can be about, and I've really worked hard to try and better understanding myself, you know, like why, you know, what was my ex's experience of me?
What did I hear? What did I not hear? What does that help me understand about how I want to move through relationships moving [00:33:00] forward? What does that help me understand about, you know, like, and that in that way, like, I will, I think that the divorce. And all of the ways that happened, which were not perfect and has been like, honestly, one of the best gifts of my life.
And the degree to which I feel that ranges day to day, you know, there's, there's still days where I'm like, is this where I want to be? I'm 44 years old. Like, you know, like I thought I'd be settled, you know, like there's some expectations in there. There's some, but for the most part. It has given me so many lessons and so many gifts and so many muscles that I wasn't going to get it.
I don't think without a really seismic life change, unfortunately. And so I'm really proud of the way that I've. Try to live into that. for sharing all those. You have so much to be proud of. Thanks. It's a great side to be in. [00:34:00] Yeah. And I'm, I'm still trying to learn those lessons, you know, that's the, that's the kind of bummer of it all.
It's just like, in my mind, I'm like, Oh, I'm divorced. And now this happens. And now I'm like this perfect person. And isn't that great. That has not been my experience, unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately those hang ups continue to exist. Exactly, exactly. Maybe I'm working to get better at how I communicate about them.
Yeah. What are a few things, just thinking about that, that you feel like you could always use continued support on?
Oh, girl. I think, I think one of them is
I can be, you know, one of the reasons that the divorce was so hard for me is that I'm amazing at avoiding some of the feelings on the feeling wheel that are not positive. Like I, you know, I, [00:35:00] whatever energy you're absorbing through the screen is probably the energy that is my gift. And the, and the, and the, the, the Achilles heel of that is that it sometimes keeps me from, it often keeps me from having.
conversations about things that really need to be discussed and in any relationship. And, you know, that type of avoidance doesn't always serve me. And, and I, I didn't, honestly, I didn't, and still probably don't fully understand the way that impacts other people around me. I'm still trying to figure out how it impacts me.
But I think that element of, Avoidance and, you know, avoidance attachment gets in my way pretty regularly. And so I think that's just going to be a thing I work on and will always show up in relationships. I think my ability to communicate about that and understand it and listen to it. A partner, a kid, whoever that's impacting is something that I've just [00:36:00] accepted is going to be part of what I need to continue to work on and trying to get feel that because it feels like a total threat to my nervous system.
But I think.
I missed it in my marriage. I don't think I fully understood it. And I'm still trying to. Yeah. Yeah. Those attachment styles and trauma. Yes. For real. And it's like the air you breathe, right? So you're like, I might think I'm not avoiding something because it's relative to my internal scale, but then someone else's internal scale and spectrum is like way different than mine.
And so they're exposed to that. Where are you? And I'm like, I'm, aren't I not, am I not here? , , I thought I was here. You know? Mm-Hmm. . They're like, you're not here, you know? And mm-Hmm. . My ability to apologize and take responsibility, you know? I think that's the thing I'm working on, and I'll always continue to work on.
I'm really fast [00:37:00] and. And so all those things show up and they're not going to, they're not going to not show up just because I got a divorce and went to therapy a lot. Right. You're not going to fix it. Sadly, yeah. Yeah, that is the fucking like worst thing about it is that you can't actually fix it. Like everything blows up in your divorce and you have all this stuff to heal.
And if you're doing like, there's no right or wrong way, but. If you take the divorce and you want to move forward, especially if you have kids, you're right. You can't go back. And like, sometimes you'll falter and you're like, I don't want to go back either. But the shit of it is, is that there's not an end.
Yeah. And then it's opened up so much. It's really a bummer. I mean, I have to be honest with you, like, you know, into the point of like the hills and valleys, it's like, I swear to God, and this is like so embarrassing, but like for about two months ago, this was all I could talk about. I was like, Oh my God, it just keeps coming.
Like it's just like, I really [00:38:00] think, I didn't know. I consciously thought this, but I really think I thought,
like, All these this big horrible thing happened to you and then you do all this work and then like you're gonna get like a long break from life lifing like and you just don't like and then you're like I don't want to do it again like I do feel kind of whiny like Yep. The one I had a couple years ago.
Oh my gosh. I feel like, I think we need to create a new like stages of grief for when you go through divorce to healing, because I also was like just a couple of weeks ago, I had gotten back from a trip to Mexico with my new partner and we're. In the kitchen and I was just like, Oh, I'm so done with all that stuff.
Like, yeah, we just like stay in Mexico forever. Yes. Yeah. So frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really working on right now, writing those waves a [00:39:00] little more skillfully. Because I think I forget and it's like the acceptance that like what's good It's like both sides of the same coin. So, so, and I was really obsessed about one side of the coin, which is like the bad will never last forever.
Yeah, like it just doesn't, right? It just doesn't. Anyone who's been, who's been through something with significant grief, once they are far enough along, they can recognize, Oh God, like I thought, I thought I was going to feel this way forever at some point. And now here I am, and I'm in a new relationship or I have a new job or whatever.
But the other side is true that like whatever is good is also always changing, which means that it also will not stay forever. And you're just kind of teetering between those two sides of the coin. From what I can tell forever, from the listeners out there [00:40:00] who like me didn't really quite get that. I really need to tell you the shocking twist of the event, but it's just constantly that.
And sometimes it's a chosen. Flip of the coin. And sometimes the coin comes for you and you didn't pick it. And sometimes it's small, sometimes it's medium, sometimes it's big. And so all you really have control over is your reaction to it, your resistance to it, how you manage it, how you take care of yourself through it.
And that's, I mean, it's, I feel like I sound really cheesy and cliche, but I'm kind of like obsessed with this right now because I'm like Chrissy, like, It's just going to keep happening, you know, and, and so I'm trying to, this is one of the latter stage, one of the stages of divorce, because I feel like I've also been so frequently, like just last week, I'm taking a writing class and we were reflecting on our writing and how it shifted and all these things.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, like my goal in my writing was to explain the story of how I became my authentic self, like how [00:41:00] I became, how I like, yes, in this person. And then all of a sudden I was like, That's not actually what's happening. I'm going to be continuing becoming, becoming forever. This is what I wrote about in my journal.
I was like, you wanted a nice little bow to the end of this story. Like, I think I thought about writing a book too. And like, Oh, here's this like really bad, sad thing that happened to me. And then I did these set of things to take care of and did it. And I, and it's in this part is true. I have been discovering edges of myself and pieces of myself.
Self that either became dormant in my marriage or I never had unlocked yet, which has been amazing. Right. That is like the highest high of parts of the story, but there is no bow to any part of our story because it just keeps going. And, and, and that's like, I think I thought the same thing. I was like a blister child for divorce.
I would, if you came to me for [00:42:00] certain phases of this, like maybe two years ago or a year ago, I've been like, girl, you're going to get a glow up. You are going to become the best version of yourself. You are going to look back on this and think that was the best. And like, I do believe that, but now there's like a part of my story that it's like, Girl, it's going to come for you again.
You're going to figure out more shit. Like you're, you're going to have another low, like the whole picture needs to be a part of the story because otherwise we're like lying to ourselves and other people about, about what a divorce is or what any part of any number of these changes. So it sounds like, I mean, you and I feel like a little bit on the same page and the destination is really trusting yourself, you know, stopping the resistance, like you're saying, like feeling your emotions, like getting to know who you are, all of those changes is the actual destination.
Not one specific you. Yes. Yes. And on some days that feels so fucking fun and invigorating. I'm, what am I, I'm [00:43:00] watercoloring, coloring in my backyard. I'm doing an energy reading. I'm, you know, meditate. I'm doing all these things. And on another day, I'm like, am I going to be trying to figure out how to not be avoided for the rest of my fucking life?
You know, it's just really,
And some of that is me getting used to like, yo, oh, today's the day you're really loving this process. Oh, today's the day you feel like you're never going to be X, Y, Z. And just understanding that and how to talk to myself through that and how to understand those voices are going to come and those parts of you are going to show up and.
Trying to collect strategies and practices that help me navigate that has been a huge part of my life that, quite frankly, I either didn't have time for in my day to day marriage or didn't make time for in my day to day marriage, and I can't tell which of those are true because when you have 50 percent of time to yourself, you really [00:44:00] realize it.
Oh, little time and space you have in a marriage for real, like to just be exploring yourself. Like, let me tell you what I was not doing when we were married and parenting, like, Hey babe, I'm just going to go like in the backyard, you know, just run through exercises to get in touch with my inner child.
Like, no, you know, and now I do that quite regularly throughout my week because I just have so much energy. time. Yeah. Which is like really a great part of marriage, divorce, you know? Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Ooh. I'm trying to think about what to, to how we can wrap this all up. Cause there's so much, you know, no, no, no, do not say sorry because there's so many good things, but I'm really hoping you can take a minute to think about like, Okay, now that we've told everybody this never ends, and now that we've told everybody that there's this other space, no, there's so much hope in it.
There's so much hope in the process and getting to know yourself. Like, what advice would you give [00:45:00] somebody that's like, just starting the process or maybe is in that emotional space that you were in at the beginning? Like, from now you've come, what would you tell them? What would I tell them? Everything's different in two weeks.
And this is going to sound really cheesy too, but I've come to really believe it. And I'm getting a lot more woo woo every passing week of my life. But I think that if you can kind of, and everybody gets divorced for different reasons, some people are choosing it, some people are not, you know, but I think if you can really get to a place where you believe like life is happening for me.
Not to me. And that if I believe that I can even shift slightly to believe that maybe 10 [00:46:00] percent more than I currently do, then I can kind of create an active like dance with what's happening. For me right now, and that I can, I actually influence where this goes. I actually influence how miserable this is for me.
I actually influence my behavior. I actually really have some influence over my emotional landscape. And I can bring some intention to that, and it doesn't mean it's easy, and that doesn't mean, but it does mean that like, this does not have to be the worst. It already is going to be painful, right? I do not think it's possible to get divorced without some modicum of pain, but the degree of suffering you do have some influence over, right?
And so. If you can kind of figure out who are the people that help remind you of [00:47:00] that? What are the practices that help remind you of that? What are the messages to tell yourself that help you remind you of that? Like, it, it will Bye bye. You will get the other side. You will get that side of the coin that is beautiful.
You will get that if, if you want it. And I think that would be my advice is, you know, I, I found it super useful to talk to other people who were going through a divorce in a way that I found to be closer to this vibe, even if it was, you know, not a pretty divorce. What were some of the things that helped them?
And that was super useful. So figure out who those people are that help you remind you that this can be something that happens, you know, for you. And, and it might end up being the best thing that ever happened to you, even if it happened in a really shitty way, or you wish it didn't happen, or you wish you had come out sooner, or you wish you had never married, you know, all of those things, wishing that things had gone differently.
You might also think that this is like the best thing that ever happened to you. If you kind of, [00:48:00] if you choose. Yeah, that's beautiful advice, really. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being willing to share your story and your experience around your divorce and your wisdom from what you've learned from it.
Yeah, of course. And none of us are perfect, right? Like none of us are experts in life, but hearing your wisdom and sharing that is so amazing. I'm so grateful that you told me about this podcast, that you asked me to be on and that you've created this community. Like, I, I really think remembering that other people are divorced is a weird, helpful thing.
Creating community. I think I told you when I met you at that day, like I had a whole baby dream that I was just going to do something related to divorce for a while because it's such a common, but feels so unique experience. And so I just think it's amazing that you, and then you add the queer layer on, whether you're, Coming out after getting divorced or you're getting divorced and you're gay.
Like, I think what you've created is really special and I'm just really grateful to be a little bit of a part of it. Oh, [00:49:00] thank you so much. And thank you for being a part of it. Oh, it's so good. Yes. so very much. Appreciate you.