Episode 15: Samantha Fox, Late Bloomer Lesbian
In this episode of the Queer Divorce Club Podcast, I had the privilege of conversing with Samantha Fox, a sexuality and curiosity coach specializing in Late Bloomers. Our discussion delves into the unique experiences of coming out later in life, exploring its profound effects on personal identity, family dynamics, and the journey to finding authenticity for late bloomers. Drawing from her own journey as a late bloomer, Sam shared valuable insights that I connected with, and I'm certain you will too. Sam also underscores the importance of community support as you navigate the intricacies of coming out and divorce. Join us for an insightful conversation that will resonate with anyone on a similar path.In this episode of the Queer Divorce Club, we deep dive into the world of co-parenting. Tera is joined for a second episode with Nina Raff, a therapist who specializes in divorce and co-parenting. Nina offers invaluable guidance on navigating post-divorce parenting. Learn how to maintain a healthy co-parenting relationship with your ex, support your children through the challenges of divorce, and manage your own feelings of guilt. Nina's insights provide a wealth of support and information for parents on their divorce journey.
Music in this episode is from Bungalow Heaven. You can find more music from Bungalow Heaven and singer/songwriter Gretchen DeVault at gretchendevault.com.
Samantha Fox
As a Sexuality Coach, I work with women worldwide who experience a later in life sexual awakening in their attraction to women. I have developed an experiential model that creates a monumental transformation for the women that I work with. This involves unpacking, unlearning, and relearning schemas and narratives that we carry with us due to being born female in a patriarchal society. I am also a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in New York. I have a private practice and work with individuals and couples struggling with sexuality, sexual issues, coming out later in life, and intimacy. I pull from various therapy models to work with my clients, which supports my belief that one size doesn’t fit all. I have been sought out by women coming out later in life who need help managing internalized homophobia, feelings of guilt and shame, and struggling to embrace and embody their authentic selves. To give women a safe space to explore, find and live their truth and to create an embracing community for women around the globe questioning their sexuality or coming out later in life, I have built the Curious, Questioning, and Coming Out Programs.
You can find Samantha online at lesbiancuriositycoach.com on TikTok @lesbiancuriositycoach on Instagram @lesbiancuriositycoach and on YouTube.
Show Transcript
Hi, Samantha. Welcome to the Queer Divorce Club. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so looking forward to talking with you today about a group that I'm very familiar with, the late bloomers, because I've definitely came out later in life. I think 30s count is late. I've been looking forward to talking to you about that.
Great. All right. To get us started, can you give us the listeners a little glimpse of your own personal background and your own relationship with divorce? Absolutely. So let's see my personal background. So I came out at 32 at that time I was married to a man and I had three kids under five years old and was a stay at home mom.
Ooh, five, three under five. You're doing it. And you know, really had a very kind of like sudden sexual awakening with a catalyst. And had a very short period of time from being [00:01:00] just like obsessed with this person to realizing, Oh my God, I can't stay in my marriage. Like it was literally like six weeks from being married and, you know, seemingly settled to, I can't stay in this.
So anyway, it was a big tsunami explosion in my life. And I went through a divorce with my husband that took three years. Where we lived under the same roof and it was beyond grueling. Mm-Hmm. . And I ended up moving out. This started in 2002. I moved out in 2005. And you know, it's been just such a journey even today.
Like I am in a place today, so that was 2005, so it's 18 years ago where I am just. Actually feeling totally free. It's crazy how many years raising the kids and doing everything I needed to do for them.[00:02:00] While I'm, you know, coming out and living a gay life, I mean, it just took so many years to be on this journey and to go through this.
He remarried which I had, you know, hoped and dreamed for him. He met somebody pretty soon after and has been married ever since and found an amazing woman that is so his match. So you know, I'm very happy for him, but it was. I mean, yeah, I understand, you know, going through divorce. It's just one of the biggest stressors in life.
It's so traumatic for so many people. And it absolutely was for me. Yeah. I taking that long and feeling like you're, you're free self makes me so nervous. Take that long for everyone. You know, what were the factors for you? Do you feel like you needed that time? Was it mostly raising kids, figuring out who you were, you know, what were those factors that.
Yeah. I mean, so I think because I was 32 and I had been a stay at home mom and I did have three kids under five [00:03:00] really. My daughter, who's now 23, she just moved out. So it, it really is mostly about raising the kids and also, you know, because I went through this divorce where I was in a very traditional marriage, I was at home, he was out working, he was 16 years older than me.
So he was the breadwinner. I didn't know anything about our finances and to get up on my feet and to be earning and to create, you know, a career for myself while raising my kids and making sure that I did the right thing by them. And I had certain clauses in my agreement with him that You know, there were certain things I could not do including really have a live in partner like I couldn't live with somebody if I was going to continue to get the support I needed to provide the home for the kids.
So I really had to sacrifice. A lot of, you know, ways of being in relationship in order [00:04:00] to raise my kids and make sure they had a stable home and also launch myself into a career. And I had a period of time in which to do that. So the kids aspect. for me was huge. I mean, I just wanted to do the right thing by my kids.
And because my daughter just moved out and you know, I've been free of his financial support for a couple of years now in any way, it's like this new stage where I just feel so free. But I think for most people, I mean, if you don't have a situation like I had, or you don't have young kids. It's a journey.
I mean, this is a life journey. You know, you're constantly growing and evolving, but it, I don't think it would take anybody to get freedom, real freedom. Like this is freedom that I've never had before. It's brand new. It's so exciting. You must feel so excited. It's really exciting. Yeah. It's a whole new world.
Yes. We're singing that song here all the time. It's our theme song.[00:05:00] So you all, you did, you know, you took that time to raise your kids and do the thing, but you made the decision to get divorced relatively quickly, right? How do you think you were able to make that decision so quickly in that moment? I mean, it was, you know we didn't have a, a bad marriage.
We had a really good, like working sort of like life partner, kind of business partner, life partner, kind of a marriage, but it wasn't a very intimate, emotional. sexual that like the intimacy wasn't really there. And I knew that while I was in the marriage. So there were, you know, we had been in couples therapy from two years before we got married.
We had started couples therapy trying to create more intimacy. So I wasn't happy in my marriage. I was happy being a mom. But I wasn't, you know, I was not connected to myself. I wasn't embodied. I wasn't I wasn't really living authentically. So when I met my catalyst, it was [00:06:00] like, everything just broke open.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know. This is really who I am and there was no, like it was like once the genie was out of the bottle, there was no way to stuff it back in the bottle, you know, staying married would have meant stuffing it and there was just no way I could do that. Yeah. Do you think I had a similar experience where my current partner is not my catalyst but I decided to get divorced while I was, you know, after I had met her.
But. In that moment, a lot of people were like, you're just leaving because you had this feeling for this woman or whatever. But I knew deep down in my heart that it was because my marriage was not great. And that this moment just like, really, like you were saying, broke me open and broke up in the space of like, there's this other world that I should be in and I'm seeing it for the first time.
And I feel like it was also so clarifying for me. I get that space, you know, they, you don't necessarily leave your marriage for that person, but it allows you to see what the other side looks like. Yes. [00:07:00] And, you know, and as I work with women, you know, going through this journey, it is, it can be kind of confusing because, you know, it does feel a little bit like for some women, like this is the person, like I finally found the person and, and for some women that person lost and that ends up being their life partner and for other women.
It's a catalyst relationship and they learn things and then they evolve and keep going. So you know, at the end of the day, I always try to help people bring it back to it being about themselves and not about the catalyst and not about the relationships. Like, what are you learning in this relationship?
Who are you in the relationship? Yeah. Are you seeing most of the, so you work with late bloomers mostly, right? Yes. Which means anywhere from like 25 to 70. So my bootcamps are filled with women in all of those areas. I mean, it's really wide. Yeah. That is wide. Yeah. Do you see a good is there a good chunk of there's some women that maybe aren't married before they come out, but there are [00:08:00] a good chunk of those that have been married and what are the, so maybe you're saying people who are in their sixties are late boomers because they have been married 40 years and then coming out.
Yes. I currently actually have somebody in my bootcamp who is in her, I think she's 67 and she was married for 40 years and I've had relationships with women before that. I think two relationships in college. Was married for four years and divorced two years ago and wants to get back to connecting to What was authentic for her.
And yeah, I mean, it's wild. Yeah. Yeah. Do you see, no matter your, their age, you know, some similarities between the women who decide to come out later? And what might those be? Like, what are some of the factors that you see consistently across the board? You know, I mean, a lot of the women, I'm going to say maybe like 65 percent of the women that I work with.
are married have been married. The [00:09:00] most like the most median age and the most common age of the women, they're in their fifties. Okay. And these are women that have been in marriages for 20 plus years. They have kids that are like coming to the age where they're going to start leaving the house.
And I find that these are the women that are waking up to themselves like it is in this age. Literally, I think I have like five people in my current boot camp that are 54. Everybody's the same age where women, I think they finally feel like, I don't know, like they're just ready to be themselves and they can't hide anymore.
And I think the freedom of your kids leaving and You know, leaving the house, they're facing what it's going to be like to be an empty nester with their husband and They're, they know they have these attractions and they're ready to start looking at it. I mean, I think the other thing is that COVID really created this tsunami of women coming out later.
Yeah. And so I [00:10:00] think there's a lot more talk about it. It's, you know, late bloomers is like a thing people know about it. So there's like, there's almost like more permission somehow there's more community. Yeah. Yeah. I think that COVID was a big factor for me as we were going through it. Like I, you know, we spent a lot of time with our nuclear family.
It was my ex husband and our two kiddos at the time. And we spent a lot of time in that. And it honestly was pretty good for our relationship. But then as time went on, I started to realize that I needed this amount I needed something else for my life. Like I realized that this wasn't enough. It didn't feel like enough.
It didn't feel like I was able to be whole in all of that. Like I was giving myself up for my family and COVID really, you know, gave me that opportunity to see that life is short and that we need other things and that we can't just wait forever for, for everything. Yeah. It really blew things up. Really did.
I am intrigued by the, the culture around late bloomers too and how [00:11:00] it's becoming very mainstream. I was just reading a memoir today that was like, me and my future lesbian wife, or I thought about this life. Should have had, I'm not even queer, but I feel like I want to because everybody's doing it.
It's not, but it's not a trend, right? It's just a, it's an opportunity that. That's, do you see it that way too? It's an opportunity that people are taking because there's community in it, the space, yeah, permission, like you said. Yeah, I think, you know, because of social media, I just think, I mean, between TikTok and Instagram, there's just so much more exposure.
And I mean, I land on women's pages on TikTok and they're just like, Oh my God, like how did the algorithm, but they knew like, they don't even, they're not even really out fully to themselves, but somehow I land on their page because the algorithm knows. And then they're like, they start, you know, realizing and waking up.
So I think it's a combination of so many different factors but [00:12:00] definitely possibility and permission and. I don't know, just starting to kind of see like, you know, like the book The Tragedy of Heterosexuality by Jane Ward, which is just basically like unpacking all of the conditioning that we live with as women.
And, Where it comes from and people kind of waking up to that and being like, do I really want to just keep living that, you know, and people being more curious and asking questions and yeah, I think I do think social media really plays a big piece of exposing people. Yeah, and an opportunity in our culture now to for women to be themselves.
It's like we've never had permission to be ourselves before right like correct. Yeah. And I think that's a big chunk of what you talk about, right? It's like uncovering your authentic self and being yourself, finding yourself. What is your authentic self mean to you? Like finding it and uncovering it, you know, how do you know you've met that, met that goal?
[00:13:00] Yeah. I mean, it's really like a state of being and. I call it like your authentic self is like your adult self energy of today which is calm, connected, curious, compassionate courageous. It's, it's like a state of being that is. very like embodied in a very calm way as opposed to somebody who is walking around the world.
Very reactive, very disembodied, very you know, just kind of hijacked by different parts of them that are trying to protect them from everything happening and keep them in line and keep them in the boxes and all the shoulds. It's like the authentic self is not any of that. It's just very calm and clear and connected and curious.
I mean, I think when you're in your authentic self. You can be curious [00:14:00] about yourself. You could be curious about other people in your partner. Like you could be curious about life. There's just, there's like a spaciousness and an ease and a calm to it. Mm. It sounds wonderful. It's like a very wonderful place to be in.
Yeah. Yeah. I, as you were talking, I'm thinking about two different things that are popping into my mind. One, how do some women get from choosing themselves in divorce and like living this life that is not their life that they're supposed to be in necessarily? Maybe, I mean, it was the life they chose and they're going through it, but it feels uncomfortable to making divorce, to being like.
Now I need to be my authentic self. I feel like, do you feel like the knowing you need to be your authentic self comes before they make the decision to come out? Or do you think that there's just this feeling that's like pushes them into that space? And then the goal has to be your authentic self, right?
Cause you can't shove yourself back into that life that you used to be in, you know, what's, what is that? I mean, a [00:15:00] couple of things first I want to say, you know, for so many women, they make these decisions and choices in their life about what they should do. In getting married and having kids, not because, and I'm included in this, it wasn't really like a conscious choice.
It's a conveyor belt. You're born, there's compulsory heterosexuality. You're just, you're like a package, a new package on the conveyor belt. And as you're growing and going through the phases of development, you're just getting like all the different stamps and wrappings to say now you're an adult. A lot of it is very passive.
Like this is just what we're supposed to do. Yeah. So there is this way that. Yes, it seems like a choice. But for so many women, they just do what they're supposed to do and what other people expect of them. And this is really how we're socialized. Like this is all we know. [00:16:00] So I think what happens for some women is that when they start to allow these feelings to arise.
For some women, it's not even, they don't even have a catalyst. You know, they just know it inside. For other women, they have a catalyst, but there is something like pulling at them and gnawing at them that feels like they are not getting in this life that they have supposedly chosen. And they... You know, are, it's, it's, it's like it's like a light and it just, it's hard to keep it dim.
Like it's hard to keep that light on like the lowest dimmer setting and it, you know, I think for, and, and I'm sure there are tons of women out there that do everything they can in their systems, just keep it down low. Yeah. But there are a lot of women that because of the exposure today, I think the light just keeps getting brighter and it's like, they can't ignore this need that they're having in this want that they're [00:17:00] having.
And I think part of that particular light. is this quest for their authenticity and for this way of being embodied and connecting to yourself, which is just your authenticity. So, you know, I can say for late bloomers that have that, it is really like I mean, it's a huge life transition where you question Everything.
You start questioning everything. Did I choose that? Was I happy in that? Like how did I end up in that? Why did I end up in that? How did I not know that I wasn't even myself? And then they're feeling much more themselves in a relationship with a woman and It's it requires you to do some work on yourself for real.
Yeah, like you want to connect the dots. You're like, you know, I'm a big dot connector. I mean, I love to have all the dots and have like [00:18:00] a coherent narrative about Exactly how I landed where I am, so I think that, you know, I think that in that quest for being aligned with who you are authentically there comes the quest for connecting the dots and being authentic and it all kind of comes together with curiosity and, you know, Evolving and all of that.
Yeah. Yeah. I think Carly and I were just talking about the phases that we keep going through. We both got divorced at the same time and moved in together and are kind of going this journey together. And we realized at the beginning that it was going to be hard. And, you know, as we healing together through this space and growing together through this space, but we didn't realize at the time how difficult it would actually be to grow through this space and then do it alongside another person.
Yeah. So we keep going through these phases, right? There's these phases where I feel really good and I know who I am. And then all of a sudden it's like, shit, where did that come from? You know, like where's. [00:19:00] What's that trigger? Where are we at? And so we're like constantly digging in. But one of the things we know for sure is that we absolutely cannot go back.
Like there's this fear in the moment. Sometimes like, did we fuck it up? Did we really get into this space where we made the bad decision to get in this together? But now we're here and we have to grow through it. You have to grow through it. You know, what's the other alternative? Yeah. I mean, I have some women that, that, you know, I have some women that I'm working with that have gone through the bootcamp and done some one-on-one work.
And like they have moments where they're just like, I wanna just stop the whole thing and just go back. Yeah. and I just call this off and go back, you know? Mm-Hmm. . I haven't actually worked with anybody who's done that, but those feelings do come up. Yeah. And they realize that that's not realistic and they can't do that.
And they don't really wanna do it, but it's. It is that overwhelming for your nervous system. It just is. Yeah, it is, right? You're like, this is a whole new thing. Like, I don't even know how to be in a secure relationship. First of all, like that's [00:20:00] part of it. And then it's like, who am I? I don't even know what temperature I want the house to be, or I don't know what food I like.
It's wild. It's wild. Yes. Yes. How are, how do you know in those moments when you're questioning everything? What things can you do for yourself to lean back on trusting that you know what you want? I think that's probably one of the things I struggle with the most. I get into this space and I'm like can I trust that I actually know what I want to have for dinner or that what activities I want to do or you know How I want to help my kids and how do I know that knowing in my body?
Yeah, I mean, I think that that's about that's very much what you said. It's like, it's sort of about this embodiment piece. And it's kind of like you said, how do you know when you're in your authentic self? Because the truth is, we all have parts of us that are self doubting, and that come up and kind of hijack us.
And we're like, are we going the right direction? Is this the [00:21:00] right relationship? Are we doing the right thing? Do we make a mistake? Which also, you know, that's part of being human in some way to question yourself and kind of check in with yourself. But at times that can become so strong that it can destabilize you, where you're kind of frozen and you don't know what you're, you know, if you've made the right choices.
And I think that those are the moments. Where doing some work, you know, whether you're can work with a therapist or you can work with a coach, but doing some practices of understanding how to come into your authentic self, what I call adult self energy of today. Mm-Hmm. , you know, really coming into your calm state of being as the adult you are today.
Yeah. Our nervous systems can take us back to moments when we were younger and we didn't really have control of anything. And we weren't adults and we didn't make choices for ourselves and we can get really hijacked by these self doubting younger feelings that we have, or these parts of us and. [00:22:00] Kind of like not access our adult self.
So I mean, some, some practice of practices of embodiment or any kind of like movement practices like yoga or like dance alone in a room to music that you love for 15 minutes every day. Like, just be in your body, go outside, go for walks, like take a walk outside and do some breathing. You know, any go cycling, go hiking, like any ways, whatever the ways are that you know, that bring you into yourself when you're in those self doubting moments, do something for yourself, make a time for yourself later in the day to come back to yourself.
Yeah, it's important to remember. I think there's times too, where it's hard to remember. Even though you're making these decisions. I don't know. Is it guilt? Especially when you have maybe it's mostly when I know with kids I have a lot of guilt around this time And so sometimes it's hard to give myself time to actually do things even like take 15 minutes for [00:23:00] myself And I'm like, I gotta work.
I gotta make money. I gotta do the kids I gotta help this but then remembering right that if I give myself 15 minutes, I'll be way better. Yeah, so Do it other ways. Yes. Yes. It's important to choose yourself. Yes. And I think, you know, I mean, one of the things that I work on with women in my boot camp, one of the first things we work on guilt, shame, and anxiety, because those are pretty much, I consider those like inhibitory feelings.
So they're blocking you from whatever's underneath them. And women are so good at the guilt one. For real. Because like, I mean, think of it like martyrdom, like what gives women value in the world? Sacrificing yourself. Yeah. And if you're not sacrificing yourself, then you're a bad person. Like this is the message.
You're not worthy. This is the message we get from very early. So there is this huge guilt piece for women that they're like doing something wrong by, by even [00:24:00] being authentically themselves, right? And what I really like to think about in that case and ask the question is like, what is underneath that guilt?
Because guilt is valid. Like if you go into a store and you steal something and then later you feel guilty, that's valid. You have done something wrong, you know, or if you hurt somebody intentionally. Yes. Guilt. Okay. But in this case, like you're being authentically you, I mean, yes, changes happen. The structure of their lives change that may be going back and forth and whatever it is, kids are super resilient.
They just need love. You know, they need to, they need your attention. They need love. And so when you find yourself feeling so much guilt that you can't even take the time for yourself to ask yourself, What might be under that guilt, like what, what feeling is the guilt blocking me from feeling. And usually it's like fear or sadness or loss.
I mean, those are typically The [00:25:00] two, you know, or anger. So there, we are all born with certain core emotions and the guilt, shame and anxiety can come in and kind of block us from that. Yeah, yeah. I recently just heard shame be described as an innocent emotion. And I was, it, and that kind of blew my mind thinking about that.
You already, you talked about too, like a lot of times it's, what we're feeling now is triggered because of stuff that we went through when we're young. And it seems like it's impossible to avoid our younger selves in our adult authentic lives, right? It is. Why, you know, why can't we just let it go?
That's because our little ones, they just need like our little inner children. They need. Compassion and they need love and I mean a lot of us were shamed and a lot of us were very alone with our emotions and didn't have parents, not because they didn't love us. They just, they were limited, like they just didn't have the tools and they were doing the best they could for whatever reasons.
[00:26:00] They grew up that way. This is how they were formed and they did the best they could, but we didn't get what we needed around our emotions. And we end up with shame and hiding our emotions. And so, you know, we can't, we definitely can't let go of our inner children because that's the opposite of what they need.
They actually need us to like embrace them and have compassion for them and care for them and check in with them and see what they need from us. So it's like the opposite, you know, Yeah. Figuring out how to parent yourself. Yeah. This is what helps you get to that space of authenticity. Yes. Hmm. Hmm.
Thinking about all the moments where I've had to give myself compassion to through the authentic self. I think that's the other part as I'm growing and building that I feel like I keep understanding is really important. Right? Like you. You are going to be messy throughout this process, right? There's no way around that.
I feel like if you're not messy I don't know. [00:27:00] That's even possible. It's not possible. It's not possible. There's no right way. Like people are, I mean, some women are kind of like, you know, I mean, it's funny, the things people think, you know, that there's a right way to go through this and am I doing this right?
Or. That there's like a specific outcome. I mean, really the only outcome is that you are embodied and in your authentic self, however, looks whatever person you're with. That's the outcome. That's, that's the goal of all of this work, you know, yeah. Is there, I mean, for those of us that are in the messy, messy spot, you know, what hope, yeah, this messy middle spot, what hope can you give them that they're, you know, if you're doing the work that you, you can find your authentic self, you can find that peace and calm space.
Can you give them a little bit of hope they'll get through it? Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm there like, yeah, I mean, it's been a really long journey for me because I had a very [00:28:00] particular situation with my ex husband that was at a very particular agreement with him that was very I don't know, almost like imprisoning in a way, but like, I just had to, I felt like I had to do what I had to do.
It was a choice, but I felt like it wasn't a choice. It was like what I had to do for my kids. I had to do the right thing for my kids. Everybody has different agreements and different ways of getting through this. But at the end of the day, I mean, honestly, I would go back and do it all again, the same way to be where I am today.
Yeah. And not only today, but also throughout as hard as it was, I mean, grueling during it. It still was so much better than where I was before. So, it's just, I mean, it's like priceless being able to be yourself. And as you come more and more into yourself and you have queer friends and queer community and chosen family, [00:29:00] and you're really able to be who you are, it's like, I don't know, there's like a freedom in just all of those stages, stepping through them, that you can't have unless you're doing it.
So all along the way you're gaining, it doesn't mean it's not hard, doesn't mean it's not messy, but you are gaining freedom every step you take forward every single day. Yeah, yeah. It's true. Little pieces of freedom. Yeah. It feels so good. Yeah. You're creating this space of like, I feel this calming in my body as you talk about it, like this freeing space that you can enter.
There's possibility. There's hope. I mean, there's definitely moments where there was a time before Christmas, a couple of years ago where I'm partner and I were in a a store that had Christmas pillows. And, you know, this comment, the thrill of hope is like. Something that Christians connect to around Christmas time, thrill of hope that Jesus is coming back to us, but we just like kept seeing that everywhere and we're like, I feel like we have this thrill of hope that's going to come, but it's [00:30:00] never going to come.
And then we're like, it's so frustrated about like the fact that hope seems hopeless and got us in this space. But I do now, you know, talking to you, talking to others, I can see that there is hope, but that the, the real hope in the journey is like. Being able to connect with yourself throughout it and let yourself be messy and let yourself feel these feelings because it's not going to go away the feeling the messy part is not going to not be there.
Yeah, and it's like, I mean, it's like, life is messy. Doesn't doesn't matter. What your identity is or what your sexuality is like life is just messy. There are ups and there are downs Mm hmm, and really the only constant in life is change Yeah, so when you're in like the really messy part just keep reminding yourself It's not gonna always be this way right because it won't like you can count on that.
It will change things will change There's no way to keep things the same. They just won't ever stay the same Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about the, also the pros and cons [00:31:00] of coming out late and finding yourself authentically, you know, after you're in your mid twenties, you know, there's the things like the kinds of, you really don't know yourself when you're 22.
So you make these decisions that aren't, you know, really your authentic self. And so as you're older, you understand yourself more and you, you know, you have, you're more clear direction, but then there's the other side of it of if I've waited. So long, I also have all of these other, other baggage to get through, you know, so what are the, when you're seeing people coming out later in life, what are some of the challenges that you see consistently them facing and some of the things that actually are in their favor as they go through the process?
Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting. So, I mean, there are many challenges, of course first of all, divorce. If you're coming out later and you've been married to a man, divorce is like, it's one of the three biggest stressors. Death, divorce, and [00:32:00] moving. Those are the three biggest stressors. So like, you have divorce and you might be moving.
Two of those are happening at the same time and your sexuality on top of that. It's like, so, so challenging. To manage these things all happening at the same time. I mean, it's just, it's actually like too much for any human. I mean, we can't even process that. So allowing yourself, like not rushing yourself, like this is going to take time for me to process all these feelings and figure things out, like being gentle with yourself and being kind with yourself.
Yeah. But I think the other piece is, I mean, so, and then there's this, then there's also like, well, now I'm divorced and I have, you know, three kids that are living with me and I'm single for some women. Like I haven't met somebody who am I going to meet? Who am I going to date? Who's gonna want to date me when I'm divorced and I have like a difficult situation going on?
I'm in a [00:33:00] messy middle and I have three kids. Yeah You know is somebody like do I try to meet somebody that has kids? Do I try to meet somebody that doesn't have kids? All of this stuff is, I found it very confusing in my 18 years. You know, very, very confusing. But the other piece of it, and this is so interesting.
I had dinner last night with another creator on Tik Tok who happens to live in New York city. And she's from the Orthodox Jewish community and came out at the age of 43 and was completely disowned by her entire community. So lost everyone she knew, you know, ended her marriage. Daughter doesn't speak to her and whatnot.
Now she's in her 60s. And she just said like the, the evolution and the healing that she has done. Since that time is just unbelievable and like it is an opportunity to heal in ways that a [00:34:00] lot of people don't ever get the opportunity to do like you can really do amazing healing work. So I mean, that was very beautiful to kind of hear her story.
You know, and also it's, you're very evolved and then you're kind of meeting other women and if they're not late bloomers and they're women that have come out, you know, at 17 or 15 or whenever they came out, they will have had different experiences and they will have evolved in different ways. And there are many women that also haven't done the work.
There are also late bloomers who haven't done the work. So it's like. I don't know when you choose to be on this journey and actually do this kind of work to find your authentic self and evolve and grow, you really want to be met with somebody else who's also on that kind of a journey. Yeah. Yeah. So those are challenges.
And also like beautiful pieces for yourself. So it's, it's, it's still messy, but that's life, you know, you can't get away from that. Yeah, it's such a [00:35:00] bittersweet perspective. I feel like I've gotten more and more bittersweet as I go through this process, right? Like, it's painful, but it's so beautiful because I'm finding myself.
It's painful, but my kids are growing. Like, everybody is actually getting stronger as we intentionally focus on the growth through this space. Yeah, it's very and both, as opposed to either or. Yeah. And I can tell you, I mean, my, I have twin boys that are 26. One of my sons is gay and he lives on the, on in LA on the opposite coast.
And then one of them is here with me in New York city. And then my daughter, my kids are like so proud of me. So whatever state your kids are in and for any women out there whose kids are younger and they're just like, Oh my God, I'm ruining my kids lives. Like, what are they going to think of me? I can't even tell you, like, now that they're young adults, the messaging I get back from them, it's like, They see my [00:36:00] strength and they see my bravery and they are so excited to tell their friends about me.
And it's just like, it all comes back, you know, it's so worth it. Yeah. So worth it. I was thinking about that as the, you know, the guilt we have as parents, especially as women that we're supposed to have this guilt. Of like not choosing ourselves. If we don't, if we choose ourselves, we're, you know, shame on you for actually choosing yourself, but the moment that you do choose yourself and then you realize the power of that.
You know, whether it's messy or not, it really unleashes all of these other moments, right? And your kids see that. And your kids see that they can trust themselves and that they can grow. And yes, it really is wildly beautiful throughout the whole process. But so fucking hard. It's so hard. It is so hard. So hard.
So hard. And, and the piece that makes it. I mean, at least for me, when I was going through it, the piece that made it manageable was [00:37:00] actually having other late blooming friends. Yeah. Because it, it's like, even just general queer community, if you're not late blooming, you can't really understand what we are going through.
So having other late blooming friends that also are going through some of it, it just, I mean, for me, it really carried me. Mm hmm. Yeah, you need the community around you, common humanity, we're all going through the same thing, you're not really feeling, you're not crazy on the other end. Exactly. Yeah. So what would you say to a woman that is feeling, or anybody who's feeling like, I am living in this space where I don't feel comfortable, I feel like I'm queer, I'm ready to come out, you know, what would you say to them to, You know, what questions did they ask themselves?
Or like what, you know, what's the little nudge that you would give somebody in that moment to help them choose themselves can move to the next step. [00:38:00] Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know, it's, it's so hard as a woman to do that. So I mean, for me, it's like reading the reading something like the tragedy of heterosexuality.
That's like a big nudge because you can actually see why it's so hard for you. Yeah. You know, thinking about the fact that we are conditioned to be pleasing. And so we are conditioned to be people pleasers. You're making other people happy, but are you happy, you know, are, what about you? Like your, your happiness comes from keeping everybody else happy, but are you really connected to yourself?
Yeah. You know, and also, you know, one of the things I hear a lot from women is their fear. It's like, well, I have a partner. It's okay. Like, it's not terrible. It's okay. I [00:39:00] don't feel particularly connected to him. We don't have an amazing relationship. I am attracted to him, but like, I have a partner. If I do this, I might end up alone.
Like, I might end up without a partner. Mm hmm. And they want some kind of like guarantee that if they take this journey that they won't end up alone. And so I just feel like, you know, leaning into that fear of being alone, like which a lot of people have, you know and, you know, just like we are born alone and we die alone.
There is something about being alive as a human where you are actually alone. You know, you have choices about relationships and whatnot, but like we need to be okay with our. aloneness without the loneliness taking over and making us so fearful to actually being ourselves. So just kind of, I don't know, exploring all that or go onto my TikTok page and [00:40:00] watch all my videos.
That's a nudge enough, I think, just from all the other women, you know it's really you know, it's, It's not easy and it's so worth it. I mean, so if you're feeling that little tickle of curiosity, you should follow the direction and see where it takes you. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if you're feeling the curiosity, like, you know, like watch some movies about, you know, queer relationships or read some books, or like I said, go on like Instagram or TikTok and just look up those hashtags and.
You know, see what, see what you feel inside. Like what do you feel inside of you happening? I know when I was in the stage where I was still married and my kids were very young, my ex husband, he used to travel like four months out of the year. He was away for business and while he was away, I would read books and rent movies.
On [00:41:00] lesbian relationships. So I knew that, and it made me feel like I was like dying for that. And I couldn't actually make anything happen. I just couldn't. I was like stuck. I felt like my kids were too young. And there was just nothing I could do. Yeah. Until... There was, you know, and I honestly don't know had I not met my catalyst at that time, I might have stayed married for 10 more years like I don't know.
Yeah, you know so I don't know like get out like, you know, go to, go to a queer meetup event like go hiking with a bunch of queer people, make some queer friends like just Try to, you know, get yourself out there a little bit to see what, what that feels like for you. It's scary, but it's, you know, it's worth it.
It will give you information. Right. Give you information to try to learn to trust your intuition and all that space. So true. Oh my gosh, that's so good. I'm just thinking, I have so many questions I could talk for hours thinking [00:42:00] about this space. I think this is one of my favorite things to think about mostly because I'm in that space of finding myself and I feel like I'm so close to understanding that authenticity means like sitting in myself, allowing myself to be messy.
You know, all those things that you're saying, finding your content space and no matter what situation you're in and trusting yourself. Yeah. It's, it's a hard, hard time. I would say before I let you go, is there any last words of inspiration you would like to give women who are, you know, maybe have chosen themselves already and are trying to find their authentic space and are really growing?
What would you, what can you share with those listeners? I mean, really honestly, like women are such powerhouses. And it's just like, once you are able to unpack some of what you've been conditioned with, you're going to be so amazed at your power. Like we are, we are, we have like magic and [00:43:00] power inside of us that has been for really good reason, smushed down so that men can stay in control because they're fearful of women and our power.
Like we are so powerful. So do the work, unpack, you know, so that you can come into your power in this lifetime. It is so worth it. Yes! Yes. Come into your power now. Yes. Oh my goodness, that's so good. It's so true. Yeah. I mean, this woman that I met with last night for dinner, like, I mean, she's 63, but we were just sitting there, the two of us going like, yeah, like we're so powerful.
I mean, you can feel your power. Once you start letting go of all this stuff, it is powerful. Yeah. How are you feel? Yeah. Every, every single woman, no matter what your background. You [00:44:00] can feel that power that has been taken from us. You can reclaim that for yourself. Yes. Yes. Actually, I don't know. There's something in the water last night because Carly and I were having this exact same conversation.
We're doing this work. We're going to be powerful. We're going to be so powerful together. We're going to be so powerful on ourselves. We're like on the right track. It's true. Yes. It happens. It happens. Yes. All right. Awesome. If people want to find you on TikTok and want to find more of your stuff, where, how can they find you on TikTok?
Yeah, I'm both TikTok and Instagram. I'm the lesbian curiosity coach also on YouTube and and also you can look up my website, which is also lesbian curiosity coach. com and you can find my programs and how to work with me there as well. Awesome. All right. Go find Samantha. Thank you so much for sending your, sharing your time with us today and your, your own power with us.
It really is. It's palpable and I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.[00:45:00]